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Psionics Research Fellow

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Morals, how far would you go, etc


This whole thought process started with the following thought: "If you would bring up a big enough intention, would you be able to make someone love you?"
Right after followed this: "Is that even possible?" "Of course it's possible. We can manipulate chance by intention, manipulate the physical world by intention, so why would we not be able to manipulate someone's thoughts/feelings by using our intentions?"

Now I was wondering what your view is on this. Is it ethically/morally acceptable to just go ahead and manipulate people (assuming it's possible)? Messing with someone's feelings towards someone else, isn't that a wrong thing to do?
If you look at it from afar, it all seems kind of egoistic. Look closer, and you see the person manipulating people has feelings/dreams of his own he wants to realise. Now, how far would you go to realise those dreams, satisfy those feelings?

I think it's not the wisest thing to do, actually. You're messing with people's thought patterns, emotions, that kind of stuff. All very complex, and I think it's easy to mess it up. Besides, what if they found out? What if you accidentally planted a thought (Inception, anyone?) like "I musn't know that Fang is manipulating my thoughts". They'll think that, get suspicious of you, and BAM, relationship/whatever gone.

I kind of want to ask the same for paranormal combat. If you really hate someone, would you use your telekinetic skills to get back at him (if you don't have the raw man-power to do it physically (or something like that, hehe))? Would it be just to throw vampire psiballs at someone who doesn't even know what they are, so have no way of defending themselves?

~ Fang



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International Psionics Researcher/Author/Journalist

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Thank you for starting this topic. I had already forgotten that I once wanted to post the same question.

To me it seems that empathy and telepathy work through love and thinking egoistic doesn't just quite fit in (like one excludes the other and it's difficult to have both).

Were you to succeed and that girl fell in love with you, would you be free of guilt and feel real love against her? If not, then doing this would serve no purpose. If yes, then why not, in my opinion.

If I were to hate someone, I would attempt to fix it by tracing it back to what caused me to hate them and then change it.

---

Is it ethical to practice pk when someone sees it, but is afraid of everything that goes beyond their model of this reality?

To me it seems like a "Yes and No". Our minds work like matrix and all intruding anomalies are dealt with .. erased. However, when we are afraid of something, then the fear might get stuck subconsciously. Sort of like people followed by their own freaky show of poltergeists that constantly keeps freaking them out.



-- Edited by Sussch on Monday 18th of April 2011 08:07:08 PM

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International Psionics Journalist

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LoL.. that question actually ran into my mind when i started too and learned all about the "power of intention" lol.. as you see.. i loved this girl.. since i was 4 xD but i dont actually talked to her.. lol i rarely did.. and she has a bf and stuff... And i thought "if i could make her love me" and use my intention and such... But.. lol
I also asked myself another question which was "If i did that.. she wouldnt have loved me coz she wanted to.. she would have coz i wanted to.." and.. i love her too much.. ^^ so.. even though its like one of my wishes.. and she is one of the most beautiful girls i ever seen and the only girl im willing to marry in this country... ^^ but.. if she doesnt love me coz she wants to.. then , there is no use to be with her ^^ Im sure everyone who loves someone would ask this question to himself..
If not o.o then its not moral..
And manipulating depends why u manipulate them.. forexample.. if you manipulate your friend so he doesnt get in trouble.. then its morals.. O.o ethical.. if you manipulate him for your own profit o.o then it aint..(at least to me..)
And psivampirism aint that easy :D you have to discover you are a psivampire yourself xD and if you are but you dont know.. it wouldnt be your fault o_O coz its involuntary.. XD though.. when i get pissed xD i start shooting psiballs at them non stop :D lolz.. hoping it would hit.. xD

Lol.. so my answer is o_O id go to a certain limit.. a little bit (just a little bit) over the normal morals line o.o but not too far away.. (unless i turn evil o,___,o )

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Nox


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Well, as far as i stand, i see what you mean. But i would say it is unethical, and against my morals, but these are also mine.

If you are willing to go the effort to pull an inception, and plant thoughts or feelings into someone so they love you, why not just use that same effort to get them to love you without underhanded manipulation of their mind. Such as talking, or asking them out on a date? It may have the same results, without the nasty, yet off chance that she could find out you used underhanded tactics and then everything falls apart.

As for Psi-combat. That's a tough one. I will say that if my life was in peril, or someone i loved, i probably would use it in a heart beat. The further away from direct peril you get, the less likely i would use it. Now, if i really hated someone, though my life wasn't in peril, ethically my answer should be no. But if i'm angry enough, i know i will set aside my morals for a moment so i can do what i want to do. The reason why i know this is because i have done it, more then once. If your angry enough, ethics and morals probably wont cross your mind.

Other then that, not sure. I might mess with people more then hurt them. If i get really good at TK, i always wanted to move crap around and blame it on a ghost :P

Anyways, that's my 2 cents

Have fun!




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Nox wrote:

If i get really good at TK, i always wanted to move crap around and blame it on a ghost :P 


Ha, that's a good one!

The question that I wanted to ask in such a topic a while ago was more-or-less the same thing. 

Fooling other people by lying them of not performing pk. Now which one would be better to protect people from their own fears? See the footer of my previous post.

As I learned from Fang, all attempts to somehow cover it up in front of other people result in our own minds acting the same. When we have success, these little "agents" then start using the same technique for erasing all traces of successful pk attempts in our memories.

So, would the answer be that those afraid of seeing pk in action must suffer and there's nothing we can do about it? I don't like it. There has to be another way .. a more caring way.

Edit: I think it shouldn't be a problem. We could help them by calming them down and explaining what's going on, perhaps through the same "inception" method..



-- Edited by Sussch on Monday 18th of April 2011 08:26:13 PM

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The unreal hath no being; there is no non-being of the Real; ~Krishna

A stable-minded person will neither hug nor hate the world, he will take things as they come.



International Psionics Researcher/Author/Journalist

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I think mindset intention and attitude are all necessary components to meet people out and about. I think there are things telepathic suggestion, inception NLP etc however that will never fool the true self in the end. Be your true self whats not to love? ;)

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I think that morality being a subjective thing; a good rule of thumb, is to ask yourself, "How does what I'm doing make me feel?"

Even without PK or mind control, we all have to weigh these thoughts. In a world were the majority of people don't consciously practice these psionic skills; being a psion is of course an advantage. Being physically stronger than others is an advantage too. Given these facts, would you apply greater physical strength to rape women & bully the weak? What if there were no law to prosecute you. Are we only a collection of laws, social mores, & fear of punishment, or do you have something in you which makes you feel for another persons pain? Do you have compassion in your heart; can you feel empathy? Of course you can feel empathy. Even before you get into psionics, or social rewards & punishments for how you behave. You watch movies & enjoy them vicariously. Your heart can rise & fall with the characters & story. So, if your are capable of caring about fictional characters, your are likely capable of feeling for a real person.

You can probably get away with taking advantage of another person with the use of these psi skills. How does it make you feel inside though? Is this how you would want to be treated? Does might make right? In some ways I think that these psi skills are not really the issue. Sometimes getting what you want with these powers, can really weigh on your soul. You can realize that the having a thing, may not be nearly as sweet as the wanting was:)



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International Psionics Researcher/Author/Journalist

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I actually believe the Ego is the safety valve abuse the ability and my own ego will cut me off from the knowledge my true fascet of your being brings to the table. This has been my personal experience. O12 you speak of how it makes you feel. I felt bad after reviewing the damage I had done to that light. I would not go out and set a park bench on fire even though  I know how to use a lighter. I think as I relaize the extent of these abilities my true fascet of my being relays this in daily meditation.



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Psionics Research Fellow

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Same goes for the following: If you could do something against the law, or another person's feelings, and nobody but you would remember it, would you still do it?

Great things being said here, thanks guys.

But yeah, maybe we're already doing similar stuff in daily life, conciously or unconciously. Like said, empathy is already part of our daily lives, even though to a smaller extent than of those who actually practice it as a skill. Who knowns we're already unconciously manipulating each other.

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Of course we are, that's what commercial advertising is all about; manipulating you to buy stuff. We manipulate one another with our clothes & affectations. Politicians obviously manipulate people, and what about babies? Yes, even babies learn that they can often get what the want by crying, and carry this skill into perfected crocodile tears well through their preteen years & beyond.

We all manipulate & exploit one another; we need to do this to survive. Children clearly must exploit the resources earned by their parents. Whether manipulation & exploitation is bad, is a matter of degree. Regardless of psionics, one must judge the possibility of their actions harming another, & whether they can live with it. It's not wrong though to exploit your own blessings and advantages. I had an aptitude for art; I studied & trained it into a professional level skill. I leverage this skill to win favor & money from people. I also enjoy art for it's own sake, but I don't see how this is any different from psionics.

I think a person should do as they please in the pursuit of enjoying life, and do their best not to harm others in the process:)



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what will you do after you lend your arm to this disturbance?

 

he didn't die, hah.



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Thanks Fridge, so many wise words and new things to think about.
Especially new things to think about.

I've been noticing that I change very quickly when it comes to opinions, especially on morals and that kind of stuff. I used to think x, then people say wise stuff about y, and then suddenly I'm all y (or at least a lot more than I used to be). I wonder if this is a good thing...
But morals on its own is already a very changeable subject, I think, so it seems only natural people's thoughts about it tend to fluctuate.

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"Shinta? That name is to soft for a warrior. From now on your name is Kenshin! I am going to teach you something very special..." - Hiko Seijuro

This sure takes me back many years...too many years, damn, lol. Kenshin, & Hiko Seijuro sure helped me through a difficult period in my early 20s. That manga/anime is very good:)

I mostly agree with Hiko Seijuro; the more life you've lived seems to make his words all the more poignant.

Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki



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"Worry about self delusion, after you have succeeded." -Owltwelve


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well, it is interesting that u say that because there are magic spells for love, lol!

but even in magic there are rules, for example when someone tries to harm or to "bewitched" someone else for egotistic reasons, the negative energy created by those actions are coming back to you 3 times.

So I assume that it is the same thing with PK, your action and thoughts create a negative energy, that when u will try to hurt someone, you might succeed, but it will come back to you.

What goes around comes around, Look at the history of mankind, when someone or a country gets overpowered and greedy they fall and they fall really ugly!

Hitler did so much evil, he fall overnight and killed himself.

 

Pride, feelings of revenge, lust, greed, all that stuff are poison for someones mind and soul, it is better to forgive and forget, it is healthier for the human mind.

 

Saying that, it is different from having justice or just allow something bad or evil to happen.

Like Einstein said, "The world is  dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who watch and do nothing."

If i had good pk powers I would do something useful with them, to help, and maybe to scare just a little the people who were picking on me at school, lol, nah, who cares anymore, I honestly don't, lol

 

great topic!

 



-- Edited by Charis on Wednesday 31st of August 2011 10:42:36 PM

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Not all magical schools hold the law of three as a part of ther system; This is mostly a Wiccan thing, though I personally agree with the sentiment. My own feeling is, that there is actually just one of us sort of dreaming that there are many. It's like, if you harm another; you are harming yourself, because there is really no "other".

I guess that there are many ways to look at it:)



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thats , I think, is so true!

 



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congestion, inflamation, constipation, lawyers, "psychologists", worry, desperation.

results of not recognizing.

what you know is what you know, what it is is what it is.

 

children's crusade. year 1212. the result of hoping.



-- Edited by atious on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 01:57:33 AM

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"atious"

atious



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That plant video is amazing.



-- Edited by Goulap on Wednesday 3rd of April 2013 02:06:13 AM

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Psionics Journalist

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hmmm is this question asked in general? or do you guys really want to actually make someone love you? really i think thats really if you know how to mind control. its a similar thing to telepathy. so if you telepathy, you already have an advantage :) you use telepathy to send messages. waht you want to do is just practice sending commands not messages. something that the receiver must follow/obey. so yeah. thought might be helpful :)

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Ah forget my signature, I have nothing smart to say...in a few months I will change my opinion probably :~p

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