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Psychic abilities as a tool for defying "the system"?


As someone of strong libertarian views, one thing that often comes to mind when thinking about abilities like this is the many ways they could completely break the measures our society has in place to keep people complying with rules. The prison system comes to mind more than anything else, as its entire function is to control what people do by taking advantage of physical limitations they assume people have--an assumption that, at least so far, has been pretty reliable. But what if these things they're assuming people can't do are actually things people can learn to do? If someone was able to teleport, for instance, or phase through walls, prison would be totally ineffective at holding them. If word got out that this was possible, and lots of people in turn started learning to do it, then the prison system would be utterly broken beyond repair. The same can be said about many other abilities that our society was not designed around people having.

Now, many people who would start a topic like this would likely be doing so out of fear, hoping people are taking steps to prevent such a scenario from occurring or something. But as you probably guessed from the "strong libertarian" part, if not some of the previous things I've said here, I am most definitely not among those people. Even besides just how good it would feel to be inseparable from my own freedom no matter what, this type of scenario is something I hope for, as an opportunity for everyone. I've mentioned many times before how I'd like to help this knowledge become widespread, and yes, this is one reason. Not the main reason, but one of them. smile I want to empower people with control over their own lives, no matter what they've done or how many people want that control taken from them, because I feel the only one who can rightfully have final say over what happens to a person is that person. And yes, people will do bad things I'm sure, which is unfortunate, but to paraphrase Cody Wilson of 3D-printed-gun fame, freedom is a scary thing. It's definitely better than other people being able to control your life. And whenever the police put someone in prison for a victimless crime, what the police have done is worse than many of those bad things people may do if prison wasn't a thing. In fact I've mentioned here before that if I was able to teleport and I could take other people with me, I'd likely use my power to free those people. biggrin

Widespread knowledge is of course a double-edged sword for my cause, as a lot of what makes these things effective against authority is the fact that they don't know about them, and wouldn't have spent resources preparing for something they thought was impossible. And if everyone knows, then that includes the authorities. Then maybe they'd be able to figure out a way to prevent that type of thing. In that case, even the comparatively few people who knew about it "before it was cool" wouldn't be able to use it to their advantage, which would be a shame. But I don't consider that a reason not to share information--that would be hypocritical of me, as then I'd be the one relying on people not knowing things they have a right to know, keeping useful information locked up just because some people might do bad things with it! wink

For the record, I'm aware that the prison system serves an important purpose, keeping the truly dangerous people away from others. But it goes way beyond that purpose, and I feel it does a lot more harm than good when it comes to the individual freedom the government is supposed to protect. It and other institutions like it also contribute to the habit of relying on others' limits. That discourages helping people break said limits, encourages intrusive controls on what people have access to even for harmless purposes (e.g. gun control), and fosters the unhealthy idea that a person is obligated to remain below some upper limit of capability, and above some lower limit of vulnerability.

 

What's everyone's take on this? Has anyone here ever used abilities like this to defy authority? Anyone actually escaped from prison like that? Do you think a scenario like I'm describing is even possible? Would it even be anywhere near the blow to centralized authority that I'm thinking it would be?



-- Edited by flarn2006 on Friday 28th of September 2018 04:29:25 AM

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Do what you want, but be prepared for the consequences of your actions. This applies whether you are using mind powers, or any other skill or advantage.

Governments know about mind powers already; they maintain established views for the sake of control & secrets.

I personally use the powers I've acquired as I see fit & set my own boundaries. I've done all kinds of things which others might find to be immoral or evil, while others might find no problems. Sometimes I've been to hard on myself, & other times I've let myself off the hook too easily. Like everyone else; sometimes I'm a saint, & sometimes a hellified sinner. Mind powers just amplify everything about you.

If you want to acquire teleportation & rescue inmates; no one is actually stopping you:)

 



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Realistically, what might those consequences be in this case, that could make me think twice? Do you mean the potential downsides (as negative consequences were implied) of a world where my stated goal has been accomplished? I figure you don't mean legal consequences, because what would they prosecute me for?

Control and secrets? Do you actually mean secrets are an end in and of itself, or just that it's important to them as a means toward their goal of control? Because I could definitely see the government doing things for the purpose of controlling people, but I don't think the government would keep secrets just for the sake of keeping secrets, lol. What do you think the extent of their knowledge is? I know on one occasion they've intentionally declassified and released some documents that report getting interesting results from remote viewing tests. If they've discovered more than that since, have there been any leaks of things of that nature that they didn't intend to be public? Cause if so you'd think something on that topic would have found its way to Wikileaks by now, considering how much else has, but I'm sure I would have heard of that if so. Plus I just googled "wikileaks psychic" but all I see is the stuff the CIA decided to release themselves.

So I guess I'm likely right in that, in case of a Mass Super-Empowering Event, the government would be pretty much out of luck? I figure they wouldn't be keeping secrets about it if they felt like they could remain in control of a population who knew those secrets; the government does have an interest in advancing the progress of science and that would be an awfully big discovery not to publicize. Besides, they'd probably be doing a lot more to take advantage of it--to the point where it would be obvious--if they didn't have some exceptional reason to want to hide it, right? (Am I on a list now?)

I admire you for using them by your own rules. :) The way some people talk about powers gives me the impression that they, unconsciously or otherwise, feel that the mere use of something supernatural in nature somehow necessitates much higher moral standards than usual, as if it was the property of someone else. Like, even to the point where they think it's wrong to do anything for your own benefit, even if no one else is harmed. Have you noticed that sentiment in anyone?



-- Edited by flarn2006 on Saturday 29th of September 2018 02:42:33 AM

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I was actually speaking generally about how all actions have consequences; powers or no. Concerning the troubles that may come with powers; there are a few. Persecution is common when people are afraid of you. I don't think that should stop you, but it's healthy to be aware of the possibility. One the opposite end is fame & lack of privacy. The Buddha, warned about these issues even back in his time. Speaking from my own experience; the biggest challenge I've faced has been lack of control & concentration fixation. Sometimes this means it's hard to turn powers off, or that the powers express themselves from subconscious impulses. This has caused chaos in my environment & often lead to fear & persecution. Still though; it shouldn't stop you, but it's healthy to be aware.

Governments know that humans beings are capable of telepathy & psychokinesis. They know that these are skills which can be developed, & as with any other skill, some have higher aptitudes than others. These powers seem to defy spacetime constraints. Knowledge is power right? Governments spend a lot of money on intelligence agencies, & the US certainly has many levels of classification for privileged information. So, it is clear that secrets are important to governments. We could go smaller though; obviously, people don't want there pin #s & passwords out there for all to know. Why do people put passwords on there computer, if secrets don't matter? Governments keep secrets to maintain power & control. Anyway, you are definitely on the list flarn2006:)

My own thoughts on a mass empowering event, is that many people would die, but we would eventually find some kind of equilibrium, I hope, lol. Also, I actually don't think that these powers are supernatural; they are skills. It's just that people don't realize the capacities of the mind.

You don't need to admire me; I'm just being honest. I mean I've never heard of an animal that didn't make use of the advantages bestowed by nature; birds fly because they can. Humans use their advantages as well...pretty people get dates & make pretty children. The issue with humans, is that our ability to cooperate as a survival advantage is often powerful enough to suppress individual advantages. Most are not consciously aware of this & make up delusional stories to justify it. That being said, my experience has shown me that it's been more to my advantage to keep many powers secret. As they say in Japan, "the nail that sticks up, gets hammered down". That's always true, but it can be sometimes:)



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flarn2006 wrote:
...

What's everyone's take on this? Has anyone here ever used abilities like this to defy authority? Anyone actually escaped from prison like that? Do you think a scenario like I'm describing is even possible? Would it even be anywhere near the blow to centralized authority that I'm thinking it would be?


I've heard stories of Tibetan monks detained in cells by the Chinese army. According to the rumors, some of them had just vanished at some point.

There have been a few similar stories in the western world as well. I think one of such stories I read from a local magazine of mysteries. Could look up some references at some point.

 

I've gotten the impression that it's not so much them governments or illuminazis pushing all this. The thing is, at this point they probably don't even have to - people willingly do it for them. A lot of people simply desire to fit in and feel normal, and they go to great lengths to achieve this.

I like the Japanese saying that owltwelve posted.

I have also tried to fit in but I've found that no matter what, it's close to impossible. People will see that I'm trying hard to fit in but strange stuff would still happen, regardless of the energy levels (+depression, ofc). It's perhaps a bit easier to not stick out too much, but even that becomes very difficult at some point as you'll end up being well-known due to your skills which you keep picking up very quickly (changing fields doesn't help).

 

There are some quite okay prisons out there, I would assume. Saw a documentary about these perhaps about 20 years ago. Also, homeless like to use prisons during the winter time. These places serve a purpose, maybe not in the best way but at least it's a start. Astral prison (enforced limits on psi and spiritual development beyond the concept of time) is considerably more depressive. One of these times when I let my emotions control psi, a being of some sort introduced the astral prison concept to me. I'm pretty sure that there are beings out there who are more evolved than humans that might have to get involved in the grand babysitting if things get too out of line. It would be far better if we evolved beyond the need for this babysitting, though.



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owltwelve wrote:
...
Anyway, you are definitely on the list flarn2006:)
...

biggrin

 

I share the concern about a mass empowering event.

Everyone deserves the freedom of choice. This seems to be something fundamental in this reality as well as in the dreams and astral. Mankind needs to evolve so that it can make its own choices. Thus far it has not even realized what it is, let alone recognizing that it has any choices or responsibilities.



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owltwelve:

I was actually speaking generally about how all actions have consequences; powers or no. Concerning the troubles that may come with powers; there are a few. Persecution is common when people are afraid of you. I don't think that should stop you, but it's healthy to be aware of the possibility. One the opposite end is fame & lack of privacy. The Buddha, warned about these issues even back in his time. Speaking from my own experience; the biggest challenge I've faced has been lack of control & concentration fixation. Sometimes this means it's hard to turn powers off, or that the powers express themselves from subconscious impulses. This has caused chaos in my environment & often lead to fear & persecution. Still though; it shouldn't stop you, but it's healthy to be aware.

You're right that it shouldn't stop me. It's the same kind of persecution that, say, homosexuals had to face (and still do, but thankfully not as much), that often kept them "in the closet", correct? People need to learn to be tolerant. With something like this it's in their own best interest too, because that prejudice could be all that's keeping them from learning some really awesome and useful stuff that they could take advantage of themselves if only they had an open mind.

I'm actually not real concerned about being persecuted here. Nothing anyone says or does will make me think this is anything to be ashamed of, and if they don't like it, I imagine there'd actually be some egotistical satisfaction there. Like they think I'm doing something wrong, but I know I'm not and there's nothing they can do about it. biggrin Of course I wouldn't actually say that, or anything disrespectful for that matter, unless they're clearly trying to bully me beyond what could just be an instinctual fear reaction they can't control, in which case they'd deserve it. wink (Yes, I know what you've said about the ego, lol. But I might as well get some enjoyment from it.)

Also, I probably wouldn't want to be friends with someone who'd have a problem with that anyway. If someone thinks I'm a bad person for not limiting myself to a specific subset of my capabilities, then I probably would think of them as a very good person either.

Governments know that humans beings are capable of telepathy & psychokinesis. They know that these are skills which can be developed, & as with any other skill, some have higher aptitudes than others. These powers seem to defy spacetime constraints. Knowledge is power right? Governments spend a lot of money on intelligence agencies, & the US certainly has many levels of classification for privileged information. So, it is clear that secrets are important to governments. We could go smaller though; obviously, people don't want there pin #s & passwords out there for all to know. Why do people put passwords on there computer, if secrets don't matter? Governments keep secrets to maintain power & control. Anyway, you are definitely on the list flarn2006:)

What about some of the other stuff you've mentioned, like teleportation? If the government knows about this then why hasn't someone like Edward Snowden leaked some damning evidence? If you're serious about me being on "the list", that's not something I should be worried about, is it? Just to make sure.

What about non-governmental groups that are also really dedicated to gaining power in something else, like the market? It seems pretty unlikely that no big corporations would be taking advantage of these powers to make a profit, if they're out there. How likely is it that not only has no company ever found a way to make a profit with this that doesn't require them to keep it secret, but also that so far no company has ever failed at their attempt to keep it a secret?

My own thoughts on a mass empowering event, is that many people would die, but we would eventually find some kind of equilibrium, I hope, lol.

Yeah, I can imagine that happening, sadly. cry But I don't see it any differently from, say, the invention of the car. It resulted in some deaths, still does actually. But it's still a very good thing that the car was invented. There's people who will be irresponsible with anything, but I don't think of that as a reason to stop, or even slow, the progress of scientific and technological discovery.

Also, I actually don't think that these powers are supernatural; they are skills. It's just that people don't realize the capacities of the mind.

Oh? What's your definition of supernatural? I've always understood the term as referring to anything that involves phenomena that come from...outside physics, in some way. Not sure the best way to describe it.

Why can't a skill be considered supernatural?

You don't need to admire me; I'm just being honest. I mean I've never heard of an animal that didn't make use of the advantages bestowed by nature; birds fly because they can. Humans use their advantages as well...pretty people get dates & make pretty children. The issue with humans, is that our ability to cooperate as a survival advantage is often powerful enough to suppress individual advantages. Most are not consciously aware of this & make up delusional stories to justify it. That being said, my experience has shown me that it's been more to my advantage to keep many powers secret. As they say in Japan, "the nail that sticks up, gets hammered down". That's always true, but it can be sometimes:)

Yep. And really, you wouldn't think that's something to admire; it's really just called being sensible. smile But there seem to be a lot of people who think of this type of thing in less than sensible ways, often because they've been brainwashed by religion or something. Like what I said before about people who think powers like this aren't "supposed to" be used in certain ways, for some reason, even if they wouldn't think twice about using any other type of skill in those ways. Again, like as if it's someone else's property and they need to follow someone else's rules for it for some reason. You know what I'm talking about, right?


Sussch:

I've heard stories of Tibetan monks detained in cells by the Chinese army. According to the rumors, some of them had just vanished at some point.

There have been a few similar stories in the western world as well. I think one of such stories I read from a local magazine of mysteries. Could look up some references at some point.

Haha, good for them! That'll show the jailers, lol. biggrin

I wonder if anything like that has happened recently, since they started putting cameras all over high-security places like jails and prisons. That would be interesting to see. Unlike most escape methods you wouldn't even need to concern yourself with the cameras; by the time they see anything on the screen there'd be nothing they can do to stop them. Hell, they probably couldn't stop them at that point even if there was a guard right there, lol.

I've gotten the impression that it's not so much them governments or illuminazis pushing all this. The thing is, at this point they probably don't even have to - people willingly do it for them. A lot of people simply desire to fit in and feel normal, and they go to great lengths to achieve this.

Yeah, it's a shame that's a problem. Luckily for me I've never been one to care about fitting in. Unless I'm somewhere like work where I need to make a good impression, and as long as it doesn't actually hurt anyone, I'll generally never let not fitting in stop me from doing something even just to be funny. So I don't think that'll be a problem for me. wink If I have powers, and they're the easiest way to do something, that's how I'll do it, and I generally won't care who sees.

There are some quite okay prisons out there, I would assume. Saw a documentary about these perhaps about 20 years ago. Also, homeless like to use prisons during the winter time. These places serve a purpose, maybe not in the best way but at least it's a start.

Yeah, I'd still like to help people who are there against their will though, and really shouldn't be. If someone wants to be in prison though, they wouldn't have to do anything differently. They'd just have a way out early if they change their mind. Who knows though, with widespread powers like this, maybe there'd be much more pleasant solutions to homelessness than that. smile

Astral prison (enforced limits on psi and spiritual development beyond the concept of time) is considerably more depressive. One of these times when I let my emotions control psi, a being of some sort introduced the astral prison concept to me. I'm pretty sure that there are beings out there who are more evolved than humans that might have to get involved in the grand babysitting if things get too out of line. It would be far better if we evolved beyond the need for this babysitting, though.

Okay, what can I do to protect myself from this? I don't want any beings to be able to overpower me; I want to have powers that no one can take away. I don't want anyone to be "babysat" in this way unless they want to; otherwise it's an unwelcome intrusion into their lives.

Also, that's all the more reason for people to know about this, so people are aware of that potential threat. By the way, if I was being artificially limited in this way, I would know, right? How easy would it be to "break out" of it?

I share the concern about a mass empowering event.

What concern, specifically? And are you saying you'd be for or against such an event occurring?

Everyone deserves the freedom of choice. This seems to be something fundamental in this reality as well as in the dreams and astral. Mankind needs to evolve so that it can make its own choices. Thus far it has not even realized what it is, let alone recognizing that it has any choices or responsibilities.

Definitely, and I think people are already entitled to freedom of choice no matter how much or how little they've "evolved". Why do you mention this though?

Whew, that was a long post! biggrin



-- Edited by flarn2006 on Sunday 30th of September 2018 02:29:47 AM

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Speaking of Tibetan monks, who've used mind powers to escape prison. In the book, Rainbow Body: The Life and Realization of a Tibetan Yogin,various powers are used to evade Chinese occupation, including invulnerability to gunfire. It's an interesting first person biography, because the events took place in the 20th century:)



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flarn2006, the list comment was a joke:)

Persecution of those with mind powers, is different from homophobia, in the sense that people with powers can actually cause harm. The fear isn't totally unreasonable. To be honest; I played psychokinetic pranks when I was younger that most would consider as a violation of the personal space of others. If I wanted to cause harm intentionally; I could do it in a legally untraceable way. The person might sense that the attack was coming from me, but they wouldn't be able to prove it. I would say that persecution of people with powers,is both rational & irrational at the same time. Also, I have many past life memories of being persecuted or killed over showing or abusing powers in various ways. It's a subject that I am sensitive about, but if it doesn't concern you; I don't wish to project my baggage onto you.

Concerning governments, as I said; they know about PK & telepathy as a human capacity, but that doesn't mean they have agents working at full capacity now. I don't know that the US ever had someone who could teleport, but if they did; I don't assume it would've leaked. People Like Snowden & Chelsea Manning, have only leaked a tiny percentage of the stuff the US gets up to. Leaking classified secrets is a rare occurrence. I mean the punishments are pretty extreme. In both of those cases, the choice to leak despite punishment risk, were matters of conscience. Would you leak classified info on super psychics, if it meant going to jail for treason?

My thoughts on "supernatural",is that it's an intellectually lazy term. Just because we don't full understand something doesn't mean it's supernatural, or outside of physics. I believe we will find scientific understanding eventually. I think our scientific understanding of nature is just not broad enough yet. What yogis understand after thousands of years of repeatable experience, is that concentration leads to unusual phenomena that some would call powers. The development of powers, works like other mundane skills.

 



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I thought that might have been a joke; that's why I said "if you're serious" instead of just asking. :) Glad to hear.

Ah, I understand. I still feel people need to learn to be tolerant of it, even if it does scare them. I've always felt that people need to get out of the habit of treating people as if their vulnerabilities are something they're somehow obligated to have. I know this isn't something I need to convince you of, but no one is entitled to any means of linking any of the things I do back to the singular physical entity behind them (that is, myself) or anything else about that entity, unless I want to make it known. In other words, I have no obligation to let others trace things back to me, even if I do hurt someone--it's the "hurting someone" part that I'm obligated not to do, but whether or not people can find out who did it is irrelevant to morality. Ideally, I'd like to have a way to cause any effect I want without there being any way to tell it was me causing the effect. And yes, I want to be able to cause harm in a legally untraceable way, merely because I feel that way about anything, not just causing harm--I of course have no desire to actually cause harm though, even if I can. I just don't like the idea of anyone else being able to control me, even if I wouldn't want to do any of the things they don't want me to do. I want to feel like I truly own my life. That make sense?

What you said about governments makes sense, but I'm still wondering about private companies and stuff. Anyone else have any insights on that? Also if I was leaking stuff anyway I'd figure I might as well leak everything, if I'm already facing the maximum sentence. Besides, that wouldn't be a problem if I could teleport. ;)

EDIT: To clarify what I said before about wanting to be able to cause untraceable harm (despite not wanting to actually do so): all I mean is I don't want to have my own limits that are the only thing preventing me. I don't want a limited existence that gets between me and what I want, basically. I don't want anyone else to be forced to have a limited existence either--in which case, not only wouldn't I be able to cause harm in a legally-untraceable way, but I wouldn't be able to cause harm period. And yet, this would be even better because it would be the result of a lack of limits, rather than a presence of limits. Harm can only occur as a result of limits getting in the way; otherwise, anyone could choose to go unharmed no matter what anyone else does. I wouldn't be any less capable; they'd simply be able to have what they want without having to rely on my own limits blocking me. And that's the way things should be. The way to prevent harm isn't by limiting the people causing harm; it's by unlimiting those who would be the victims.



-- Edited by flarn2006 on Sunday 30th of September 2018 04:42:41 AM



-- Edited by flarn2006 on Sunday 30th of September 2018 05:32:02 AM

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There are companies like PsiTech that sell remote viewing skills to corporations. There are indivduals who work as private freelance remote viewers/influencers, or probability manipulaters. There are also individuals within companies who are unconsciously or naturally gifted at probability manipulation & influence. I don't know of anyone selling higher level powers than that, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I think though that higher level powers are rare & hard to maintain in modern society. For example, I've been able to achieve levels of concentration & powers on long retreats which are hard to maintain when back in society. Obviously the demands of work & family can be distracting.

Concerning leakers; you shouldn't assume that an individual whistle blower, has access to all information, or that all information is centralized. They may just have access to what falls under their particular clearance, or maybe just a particular event that they happen to witness:)



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Psychic abilities as a tool for defying


Ah, that's interesting. It would probably be very hard to sell higher level stuff because whether it's real or not people are going to naturally assume it's a scam...unless they can give a free demonstration like a lot of companies do to advertise their product. :) Seriously, isn't that just business common sense? If you think there might be companies selling high level stuff like that, why do you suppose they haven't made themselves well known? It would be ridiculously easy, and they'd become huge. What kind of legitimate, legal business doesn't want to be well-known and proven?

I really want those high-level powers, as you know, and I want to be able to use them in my daily life, without having to spend my daily life in solitude like an ascetic monk. How achievable would you say that is? I assume in this case the rarity comes less from extreme difficulty, and more just because most people who reach that level aren't interested in practicing powers--am I correct?

About the last point, yeah, that should have been obvious, lol.

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RE: Psychic abilities as a tool for defying "the system"?


flarn2006 wrote:
...
The way to prevent harm isn't by limiting the people causing harm; it's by unlimiting those who would be the victims.

Totally agree.

Additionally, harm can be prevented by ensuring that the ones causing harm witness all the consequences of their actions. Though, sometimes it can be too harsh for them so they seek the easy way out (suicide).

I think that already empathy and telepathy would solve a lot of world-wide problems. When someone sees other people the way they are, then there would be no deception, misunderstandings, judgement, etc.



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flarn2006, I said I don't know of anyone selling higher level powers. I don't want to rule out the possibility that it happens, but I'm not aware of it. As I said higher level powers even once achieved can be difficult to maintain in modern life, because you have to practice that level of concentration constantly. This is hard to do with mundane distractions. It's not impossible, but you have to find a way to arrange your life around this intensity of practice. That requires sacrifices most people would have a hard time with. Think of the sacrifices Olympic gymnasts make to be the best in the world at their skill. Also, as you mentioned; many yogis gradually stop caring even if they started with the mind power motivation, because the powers themselves don't create happiness or spiritual fulfillment. Even if you manage to maintain interest as I have; your perspective on what these powers actually are evolves.

Concerning your own goals; I say go for it and see where it leads you regardless of what I or anyone else has experienced. The only boundary to your goals is your own will:)



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Sussch:

That's true, but that has the drawback of not working for everyone. Some people don't care about the negative consequences of their actions, or may even enjoy seeing them. The only way letting people see the consequences of their actions can prevent harm would be if it makes the person decide on their own that they don't like it, and even then, it won't prevent it that first time.

Improving people beyond vulnerability to harm, on the other hand, works against any harm-causer.

Empathy is the same way; a lot of people wouldn't want to feel the pain they've caused on others, even good people who've only caused others pain unintentionally. The only way that strategy would have any hope of working against someone causing harm intentionally (who clearly wouldn't be interested in developing empathy) would be if empathy were to somehow be forced on everyone, something that hopefully isn't even possible. But if it is, then besides being morally wrong (like you said, people have a right to freedom of choice) forcing empathy on people would just be back to that undesirable, unreliable "solution" of forcing limits on people and hoping they stay in place. I don't think that's what you were suggesting though. :p

By the way, speaking of forcing limits on people, did you see what I asked before about the "astral prison" thing you mentioned yesterday? Not sure you noticed that post.

owltwelve:

Yeah, I know what you meant. I was just saying that to me it seems unlikely that there are companies selling that, as I can't imagine a company not taking the obvious step of mass-advertising and definitively proving the efficacy of what they're selling if it's something that works, especially something that big. (Again, unless it's illegal or something, but this isn't.) In other words, if there were companies using high-level powers as part of their business, people would probably know, as they'd make sure of it.

Thanks for your advice as always :)



-- Edited by flarn2006 on Monday 1st of October 2018 04:11:14 AM

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flarn2006 wrote:

Sussch:

...

Empathy is the same way; a lot of people wouldn't want to feel the pain they've caused on others, even good people who've only caused others pain unintentionally. The only way that strategy would have any hope of working against someone causing harm intentionally (who clearly wouldn't be interested in developing empathy) would be if empathy were to somehow be forced on everyone, something that hopefully isn't even possible. But if it is, then besides being morally wrong (like you said, people have a right to freedom of choice) forcing empathy on people would just be back to that undesirable, unreliable "solution" of forcing limits on people and hoping they stay in place. I don't think that's what you were suggesting though. :p

By the way, speaking of forcing limits on people, did you see what I asked before about the "astral prison" thing you mentioned yesterday? Not sure you noticed that post.

...


Ah, an interesting way of seeing things. I did not consider forcing empathy to be a breach of free will, and you're right, it can be interpreted as such. Reminds me of "Buddhist Extremist Cell Vows To Unleash Tranquility On West". Back then I just laughed at it, without realizing the depth of it. Thank you for enlightening me in this regard!

I did notice your post. I needed time to think about it.

I think the being did show the way out of such a situation. Just that for me in such a state, it was too much to ask. You may have noticed that the more psi you have, the easier it is to focus and concentrate it. With barely any psi, it can be very difficult to focus. So, you'd have a constant longing but seemingly no matter what you do, brings you any closer. The way out of this astral prison would've been to achieve constant concentration on being liberated. To me, the being showed this by pointing to the region above my crown that I used to concentrate on several years ago. This region looked like a portal to the mindspace that I had back then. Basically all-permeating golden light (symbolizes enlightenment for me) that was textured in such a way that it looked like sunrise / sunset shining through green trees (symbolizes being at peace for me). However, during the time that I was in there, all I could see (feel) was endless longing and helplessness.

There's always a way out, though, sometimes it can be difficult to recognize it.

 

I suspect that lacking psi is the reason why most people just have this longing without being able to explain it, nor do anything about it. They try all kinds of things (browsing reddit, chatting with people, having sex, drinking, doing drugs, etc.) but none of them seem to be of any help. Whenever they get more psi, they're not used to handling it so they make sure to lose it again. There are also not that many good examples out there on how to handle these things.

Ah, also about whistleblowers, have you read Project Superman by Michael Andrew Pero? I don't know how much of it is fact or how much of it is fiction but I found it to be an inspiring read. Also, you might want to look for similar stories from Project Camelot. There's a lot of disinfo out there, but probably some real stories as well (as per technique #1 from The Gentlepersons's Guide To Forum Spies).



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some things I would add about empathy from my own experience, as well as what other yogis report, is that it doesn't need to be forced. The natural state of being is integrated, meaning that there is no separation; there is only one of us having a fractured experience so to speak. You are the objects that you are trying to effect, or avoid. The stronger & more skilled you become with concentration; the more your ego dissolves. More power, means more integration & empathy essentially.

Different bindus unfold different flavors of empathy, in case you wish to at least partially maintain your sense of egoic self. The bindus in the lower dan tien & the upper dan tien, allow you to remain more self centered, but you still won't remain the same as you are now. To be specific; through the ldt, you can reach a state of non dual detachment, bliss & power. The upper dan tien, develops an awareness of the universe being your physical body, but you can still feel emotional individuality.

It's more complex & variable than the way I'm presenting it, but this is my understanding in a nutshell:)



-- Edited by owltwelve on Monday 1st of October 2018 06:27:35 PM

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Sussch wrote:
Ah, an interesting way of seeing things. I did not consider forcing empathy to be a breach of free will, and you're right, it can be interpreted as such. Reminds me of "Buddhist Extremist Cell Vows To Unleash Tranquility On West". Back then I just laughed at it, without realizing the depth of it. Thank you for enlightening me in this regard!

I did notice your post. I needed time to think about it.


You mean you did basically mean forcing it, but hadn't considered free will? In that case, I'm glad I could help you realize that! aww

All good, just making sure you didn't accidentally overlook it.



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While that is true, I guess that the mere presence could be interpreted as a potential act against someone's will. Those few years ago it was enough for me to be in a small room with someone, or to look at someone in order to affect them. Even though the experience probably wasn't too bad (mind going blank mid-speech, some affection, and occasional unconscious jerks of limbs), some people probably didn't have a choice. At least, not a conscious choice.

Even though I haven't had that much issues with this since, I still try to avoid prolonged eye contact. There's also this subconscious reflex for tension (to block the flow of psi) within the body sometimes. @owltwelve, I think you also mentioned issues with this tension in your journal.

Hmm .. but then again, if one starts to limit their presence due to its consequences, then that goes against one's existence. The reason for one to exist in this world is to have presence. So, I think there should be some common sense above all.



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The unreal hath no being; there is no non-being of the Real; ~Krishna

A stable-minded person will neither hug nor hate the world, he will take things as they come.



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flarn2006 wrote:
Sussch wrote:
Ah, an interesting way of seeing things. I did not consider forcing empathy to be a breach of free will, and you're right, it can be interpreted as such. Reminds me of "Buddhist Extremist Cell Vows To Unleash Tranquility On West". Back then I just laughed at it, without realizing the depth of it. Thank you for enlightening me in this regard!

I did notice your post. I needed time to think about it.


You mean you did basically mean forcing it, but hadn't considered free will? In that case, I'm glad I could help you realize that! aww

All good, just making sure you didn't accidentally overlook it.


 Yep.



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The unreal hath no being; there is no non-being of the Real; ~Krishna

A stable-minded person will neither hug nor hate the world, he will take things as they come.

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